Independence of the Venetian People or the State Lombardo-Veneto and the Veneto Regional Council ?

Anyone who proclaims independence should at least know how to respond to the basic question: independence of what ?

for example, There are Sardinian separatists.

Nobody asks what they are fighting for because the situation seems very clear: Sardinia is an island, and inside there are the Sardis, they fight for their independence.

This is a clear example of nationalism because if you look closer, things aren't actually that obvious even then.

For example, there is the problem that the Sardinian people cannot be identified in a single language, because in Sardinia they exist at least 5 linguistic communities, of which 4 historical (centuries-long presence).

In fact, in Sardinia are spoken 2 Sardinian language variants, an ancient one in the south and a more recent one in the center, and among them they are partially intelligible, even if it's their problem because I speak Venetian, italiano, French and English do not understand a butt in both cases.

In Sardinia though, the so-called northern Sardinian language is actually of Corsican-Genoese origin and even I, who am from the Veneto, understand it more or less, while Catalan is spoken in Alghero (but I find a community very threatened with extinction due to the lack of protection of the Italian state).

Furthermore, during the 1900s they arrived in Sardinia well 2 of Venetian waves, the first Carbon, and Venetian language still exists, while the second, more haggard, north of Alghero , it was made up of refugees from Istria and Dalmatia, whose Venetian idiom today seems to disappear as the people who suffered genocide.

But if we leave these differences, an island forces you to a common destiny, and it allows you to say that it is a unique Sardinian people with some linguists differences.

So what the Sardinian separatists want is clear enough: the independence of Sardinia which belongs to the Sardinians.

So you could say: a Sardinian state has already existed ? The answer is yes, but since then it became Piedmont-Sardinia, and then Italy, in practice they are asking for independence from their original state which has in the meantime transformed into a Moloch.

The Sardinians are therefore asking for recognition as a Sardinian people of the independence of a Sardinian state as large as Sardinia.

Su può? In international law, every people has the right to their status, but there is no definition “engineering” of the people, if there were, it would be the formula that would explain humanity and history itself.

Gli indipendentisti sardi chiedo uno Stato Sardo, but they cannot pretend to return to a state that already existed, then ask for a new State Sardo.

Be careful, because here lies the whole problem of every pro-independence activist: independence of the people or independence of ex-state ?
Per il diritto internazionale si può chiedere:
– un nuovo stato per un popolo, and then we speak of Self-Determination of Peoples which is partially regulated and envisaged
– il ritorno alla sovranità di uno Stato già esistito, e allora si parla di Autogoverno e il percorso legale è molto definito
– esiste poi il percorso di liberazione dei popoli in guerra che si dichiarano Movimento di Liberazione , but it is neither safe nor peaceful.

Because I said all this? To explain to the independence of Lombardy, Veneto and Friuli that our future is linked and unique.

Here because. We make the effort to imagine taking Sardinia and put it down to the Po Valley, with the north of Sardinia attached to Liguria. E’ a geographical monstrosity, but the big problem would become another: I am still “Sardinian people” those bordering Liguria because they speak a dialect of Ligurian ?

Suddenly what seemed clear and obvious is no longer. Il Popolo Sardo andrebbe nei pasticci perché non avrebbe più quella unicità territoriale che ne definisce nettamente i confini, e sarebbe costretto a ritagliare la sua definizione su altri criteri, as a language, History, existence of a state, etc. etc. .

At that point the Sardinians would perhaps even be tempted to value the existence of an original and aboriginal ethnic, because in that case it might come in handy to define their own existence.

Ora guardiamo ai popolo veneto e cerchiamo di definirlo ( obviously after having replaced Sardinia in its place!).

Ho già detto molte volte che il popolo veneto si può ritagliare sulla carta geografica usando 1 o più criteri: la lingua , history, le vicende storiche-giuridiche, i criteri sociologici, anche l’ archeologia volendo ….. Sui dati genetici non abbiamo risposte, maybe censor them, but in any case I believe that for the very history of the Venetians and for their non-racist mentality, they would have no ultimate value rather than returning to the culture.

Se prendiamo la lingua come criterio principale per definire il “people Venetian”, allora avremmo la sua presenza nel territorio che andrebbe dall’ovest del Garda, to the north of Mantua, comprenderebbe Trento e il Veneto e tutta l’alto Adriatico compresa Trieste, but not Udine, and perhaps still some Adriatic islands. Però dato che tutti i dialetti del nord Italia hanno discendenza anche dalla antica lingua venetica, It could define even the Po-Venetian people (!), ma non sarebbe il popolo veneto.

If the principal criteria for defining the “people Venetian” prendiamo la comune appartenenza (For centuries) alla Repubblica Veneta, Also looking to the next legal steps, allora il popolo veneto anche legalmente è proprietario di tutto il territorio da Bergamo a Udine, then comprising the bergamaschi, the bresciani, the Venetian and Friulian, but would not include Trento and Trieste, nor the north of Mantua, and would be a people speaking different variants of Late or different languages (Friulian is a language). E’ un popolo come nel senso dei Sardi, degli Svizzeri di molti altri popoli che hanno più lingue.

Guardando in giro, i catalani chiedendo la nascita di un nuovo stato mai esistito, sulla base di lingua e cultura catalana, e hanno molta difficoltà perché il diritto di creazione di un nuovo stato è molto molto difficile se non impossibile quando ti manca una storia giuridica da opporre o una persecuzione in corso.

In fact, it does not exist in international law the law of absolute right of a people to become independent, deve prima ottenere il riconoscimento internazionale che viene concesso solo quando tutti sono d’accordo e (nei fatti ) il popolo regala la propria sovranità alle banche debitorie o alle compagnie petrolifere. Sad but that's the way it is. E questo vale anche per i movimenti di liberazione come dimostrano il caso di Libia (riconosciuti ma ancora in guerra ) e Siria (non riconosciuti).

If we leave the idea of ​​people in the modern sense, e ci rifacciamo al diritto, i veneti sono fortunati, ma occorre valutare con attenzione l’idea di richiedere indietro la Repubblica Veneta, invaded in 1797.

The Scots are making this journey, they demand the return to the sovereignty of a former state, Scotland. La loro storia è indietro nel tempo, Scotland joined England, e a livello internazionale non avrebbe diritto a tornare sovrana perché solo gli stati annessi dopo il 1840 ce l’hanno (entrata in vigore del diritto dei popoli di metter parola sull’annessione). Per fortuna degli scozzesi, hanno avuto concesso il diritto di staccarsi nuovamente dal governo centrale. So if the Scots does not matter what's inside Scotland, the people correspond to the residents of the territory of the former state.

Ecco che se come criterio principale per definire il “people Venetian” take the common belonging to a state, abbiamo ben 2 choices:
la Repubblica Veneta e il Lombardo-Veneto.

The Venetian republic, however, was invaded before 1840 , He has no sovereign right to return if not ,as for Scotland, with the authorization of the current states.

If, on the other hand, we ask for the independence of Lombardy-Venetia, a state existed for 50 years, it can become sovereign again, and if we certainly do not place ourselves anymore or only in the wake of the speeches “ethnic”, but on those of the independence of states, we are in a path of independence (one of the states) much more consolidated than that of peoples' independence. On the other hand, the Venetian people from Bergamo to Udine are included there.

What to ask the Venetians referendum …….. a region that was to become? REALLY!!!!!

A region cannot become a state, nor will such a principle ever exist or be recognized, because it would jeopardize the existence of every state in the world. The case of Kosovo has risked creating this precedent, and was immediately blocked, proving that the stability of the world is at stake. Kosovo does not even exist as a state for the’ UN that defines a territory of Serbia under international interim government.

The Venetian politicians who proposed the referendum in the region are destined for rubbish, because they have proposed a path that does not exist internationally, which is not a path of the people nor a path of the state.

In fact, the consultative referendum on the independence of the Veneto is neither the referendum of the Veneto people, nor the referendum for the return to a former state, but the referendum of an Italian region that does not differ in some way for ethnic uniqueness (Venetians are elsewhere ) nor for legal uniqueness (the region as it is today never existed as a state).

If you want to make the referendum of the Venetian People of linguistic or legal basis, lo si faccia, ma non si spacci quello regionale per referendum di popolo. Di sicuro non ci cascherà la corte internazionale.

Some wise guy might propose a referendum for the return to the Serenissima, to be held, however, in all the territories of the Serenissima with the consent of Croatia, Albania and Greece.

Dunque il ripristino della repubblica Serenissima non è possibile, perché al tempo della caduta i popoli non avevano diritto.

Il ripristino del Lombardo-Veneto ? This is possible and legally very plausible, and it does not endanger any established legal principle internationally.

Rather, if the community of states did not recognize the sovereignty of Lombardy-Venetia, negherebbe i diritti umani dei popoli e degli individui, and not only, they would deny international legislation on the right to territorial integrity of states ….. So break out a third world war and there would be massive bloodshed in the world.

Then the separatists wonder : you know what to fight for ? un popolo uno stato o per una sedia in consiglio regionale ?